View Full Version : Widdlers just leave me cold
mgrowe
22-01-2007, 01:00 PM
I am not meaning to upset anyone but I just cannot stand widdlers.
Widdlers are people who play at 1000 miles a hour for no good reason.
They play 5 minutes solos trying to make their fingers bleed even though it doesn't actually fit the song. Bloody show offs the lot of them
Playing fast is good as long as you know when to do it. I hear some stuff these days where the techniques are more important than the song. By all means play fast but only when it fits.
One of the hardest things to learn on guitar is when not to play, or when not to play too much/too fast
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rant:
I know what you mean ....I like a little quick run here and there provided the rest of the solo has a melody...if I can't hum it reasoanbly accurately then is is widdle-poo. Part of the art of soloing is knowing when not to play all the notes of the scale instead using the key ones that fit with the backing chord and give the audience something to remember :smile:
ZappaFan
22-01-2007, 04:17 PM
A common theme there, this discussion has cropped up many times. They dont seems to realise that the space between the notes is just as important as the notes themselves. They create tension and expectation which gives more definition and meaning to the actual notes.
I am certainly with you on theis one.
think I'll have a GRRRRRR !!!!! too
zombo
22-01-2007, 04:18 PM
I think playing guitar solos tastefully is a matter of being balanced and using all techniques welded together !!!
zeusse
22-01-2007, 04:44 PM
I think playing guitar solos tastefully is a matter of being balanced and using all techniques welded together !!!
Yes John well said...mind you I still enjoy 12,000 notes jammed into 4 bars....hehe
john aiton
22-01-2007, 05:48 PM
You would all hate me; I'm all about the shred
weeeeeoeoeeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooooooooootatatatatata tatattatatatatata
(one of my solos)
inthatcasedoyouspeakyoursentencesinmonotonewithnoe motionandneverstoppingtocatchbreathandthereforenoo neeveryreallyunderstandshowyouarethattomewouldbebo ringandliketalkingtoStephenHawkingalldaylong
Widdler = Guitarist who rates technique as more important than music.
Widdlers music = A series of high speed exercises played in close succession.
I ask you this... can a widdler make you feel happy/sad/relaxed/energetic/smile/cry etc? The overwhelming majority will undoubtedly say no. Music should be about emotion. High speed playing can add to the emotion being portrayed but, if abused, will strip all emotion out of the piece being played.
Guitarpima
22-01-2007, 10:25 PM
I like what someone's quote on this site says. "If it sounds good, it is good". So play guitar and have fun. If you can't have fun, try needlepoint.
john aiton
22-01-2007, 10:44 PM
"I ask you this... can a widdler make you feel happy/sad/relaxed/energetic/smile/cry etc?"
hell yeah, of course
can someone who only plays overused pentatonic bendig type licks (like gilmour) excite you anymore?
petrucci , becker and kiko loureiro are definately "widdlers"
but the have a far better sense of melody than any of the old
people players
speed is a very usefull ability for creating emotional and dramatic music
speed = emotion
zeusse
23-01-2007, 12:59 AM
"I ask you this... can a widdler make you feel happy/sad/relaxed/energetic/smile/cry etc?"
hell yeah, of course
can someone who only plays overused pentatonic bendig type licks (like gilmour) excite you anymore?
petrucci , becker and kiko loureiro are definately "widdlers"
but the have a far better sense of melody than any of the old
people players
speed is a very usefull ability for creating emotional and dramatic music
speed = emotion
Just want to induldge in some happy discussion with you on your point. To which old people players do you refer to because I am old and that would probably refer to the players of my generation. As much as I do like what Petrucci, becker and a few others do and they can be quite melodic they don't have the soul that Gilmour does. As much as I do love to shred and enjoy that stuff my afternoon is much more entertained listening to guys like Gilmour, but then I am old...LOL
Stempy
23-01-2007, 07:24 AM
Me too, old old old, I'd far rather listen to Woody Guthrie than that human capo shite.................
Steve Zane
23-01-2007, 08:20 AM
Me almost old :hehehe: I have to agree with Zeusse....Petrucci and all those fast shredders are not even close to Guilmour as for feel or soul. Mind you I like to listen to a good fast player too. It depends how you feel...some days I want Shred some other days soul.
I think Steve Vai is a fast player who has soul.
Another thing that irritate me a bit is people comparing apples with oranges. The new shredders of today are just different from the older guys....they both have something interesting to bring to music. Music is an art .. even if you play slow or fast..the thing is how well can you play.
Bluto
23-01-2007, 08:21 AM
can someone who only plays overused pentatonic bendig type licks (like gilmour) excite you anymore?
WOW!!! hold on there mate!!! Thats fighting talK!! :smile:
mgrowe
23-01-2007, 08:41 AM
Wow I think I hit a nerve there.
I like some fast players (Petrucci nis a case in point, fast when needed but can slow it right down) but some for my ears over do it
Indeed Mike, Petrucci's music is a very good example of speed adding to the emotion of a song. He will play an emotional line then throw in something mind-blowingly fast because it leads to another tastefull phrase and adds tension along the way. My problem is with five minutes of non-stop burn.
mgrowe
23-01-2007, 11:50 AM
Indeed Mike, Petrucci's music is a very good example of speed adding to the emotion of a song. He will play an emotional line then throw in something mind-blowingly fast because it leads to another tastefull phrase and adds tension along the way. My problem is with five minutes of non-stop burn.
Couldn't agree more
Steve Zane
23-01-2007, 04:28 PM
one example...I can't listen to Yngwie more than 5 minutes...he just gets on my nervs.He always sounds the same to me, and it's way to fast.
That's only my opinion..I hope I don't offend anybody.
john aiton
23-01-2007, 05:13 PM
Wow I think I hit a nerve there.
I like some fast players (Petrucci nis a case in point, fast when needed but can slow it right down) but some for my ears over do it
haha; a little.
just because Yngwie doesn't know when to slow it down doesn't mean all shredders are the same though. I really hate that stereotyping
well anyway to use my trumpcard: "GUTHRIE GOVAN" :p
no-one can play with as much feel as guthrie and is the fact he is the most accomplished technical player on the planet a co-incidence?
well have it at you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbSVbXfTnOM&mode=related&search=
please watch the whole video; nice melodic breakdown bit; no one could deny this cries with feeling :'(
:smile:
well anyway to use my trumpcard: "GUTHRIE GOVAN" :p
no-one can play with as much feel as guthrie and is the fact he is the most accomplished technical player on the planet a co-incidence?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guthrie_Govan
incredible player who prefers jazz.
do you play jazz john?
I thought the Guthrie vid was very cool and have always liked his stuff...but why? because there is not 100mile an hour contant shred like others I could mention.
john aiton
23-01-2007, 06:14 PM
I thought the Guthrie vid was very cool and have always liked his stuff...but why? because there is not 100mile an hour contant shred like others I could mention.
yeah I play jazz, jazz could also be considered as a shred type music
and guthrie hit a 16 note per second run in that video
at that sort of speed your fingers can move between 40-60 mile per hour really :p
ZappaFan
23-01-2007, 06:35 PM
I often qusetion why people like Guthrie aren't as internationally recognised as others are. The only answer that I could ever come up with is that he can do just about everything, all styles, all speeds (well 40-60 anyway :-), techniques the lot. That I think is his downfall, no definite musical identity. It's a shame really that unless musicians can be pigeonholed into a particular genre then they dont get the recognition.
john aiton
23-01-2007, 07:53 PM
I often qusetion why people like Guthrie aren't as internationally recognised as others are. The only answer that I could ever come up with is that he can do just about everything, all styles, all speeds (well 40-60 anyway :-), techniques the lot. That I think is his downfall, no definite musical identity. It's a shame really that unless musicians can be pigeonholed into a particular genre then they dont get the recognition.
yeah, it's true
but this is what was referred to as playing fast for the sake of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt12iVh4h_U
I enjoyed every second :)
john you can embed these videos right into the thread check out the vbcode instructions
john aiton
23-01-2007, 08:06 PM
oh i didn't know that, cheers
"Shredding isn't music, it's AWESOME"
petermoran555
06-02-2007, 01:52 PM
I really don't get the "Speed = no emotion" thing.
Paganini played violin at immense speed, but did that mean it lacked emotion?
This is one debate that can never be truly resolved. Different things stir emotion in different people and 'emotion' covers such a wide range feelings... happiness, sadness, anger etc. Paganini's music may well have evoked emotion in people but if you don't like his music then it could make you feel angry. Is that a good thing?
This does not necessarily conform to my views, it's just food for thought.
petermoran555
06-02-2007, 07:35 PM
Exactly true.
So the point then, is that people shouldn't generalise and say something is emotionless because its played quickly. It may be emotionless to THEM because they have a different interpretation of what is meaningful.
Fair enough, Francesco Fareri or whatever his name is, has no emotion in his playing whatsoever and I'm sure nobody would disagree with that, but the likes of Yngwie, Vai, Gilbert, Petrucci etc, all have something in their playing which different people can see as being full of emotion.
bigdoug
07-02-2007, 10:09 AM
here's a young guy who was posted in another thread, for me this is the way to go. He has speed, emotion etc, An awsome player already(as zap said a bit like a thunderbird puppet)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHdkAZZdDWM&mode=related&search
bigdoug
07-02-2007, 10:15 AM
now if you watched the last clip all the way, for me it was great but the last section he just widdles away and to me its not very musical. I would rather he just finished on the melody. To be fair tho, if you can play like that it must be difficult not to get bored and just splodge little runs in just for fun. As someone said earlier the real talent is to know when less is more.
vaibajez
07-02-2007, 07:04 PM
at the end of the day, diffrent people... like diffrent music.
petermoran555
07-02-2007, 08:34 PM
Correct.
It really is as simple as that.
If you don't like it, listen to something you do like instead.
Highway Star
07-02-2007, 08:42 PM
Well, thanks guys, I used to be narrow in my musical tastes and, thanks to your input, I now have a more varied taste including a (little) bit of shredding! LOL
Farl
Exutus
10-07-2007, 08:18 AM
Here on this website, OverdoseEVO can play 24 notes a second, and plays Ode to Joy (*Beethoven, figerpicking) as well
Shredder is a useless term there.
bluesgeek
10-07-2007, 10:57 AM
If I wanted to listen to Beethoven, I'd want Karajan conducting it...
mullyman
11-07-2007, 01:45 AM
It's a shame really that unless musicians can be pigeonholed into a particular genre then they dont get the recognition.
Agreed with one exception being Steve Morse. He seems to have done fairly well for himself considering he only puts out instrumentals and each CD has anything from rock to jazz fusion on it.
MULLY
Being in Deep Purple probably didn't hurt much on image
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