Tempered fret systems

[Scali]

Steve Vai has recently started to use this system on his new guitars: www.truetemperament.com

Looks crazy, costs a ton, but people claim that it really makes a difference.
Now I know a guitar doesn't have perfect intonation... but is this really the solution?

I'm sceptic, because I think variables like finger pressure, the inaccuracy of intonation/tuning of the string in general, applying bends/vibrato etc already screw up intonation anyway.
Because these factors still apply with the tempered frets, I think the intonation will never be 100% anyway, so you still will be compensating.

People who've never used a stroboscopic tuner, may not actually ever have heard a guitar 'in tune' anyway, because regular tuners don't have such good precision.
And people who do have a stroboscopic tuner, will know that their guitar will not stay 'in tune' very long.

I'd like to give it a try though, perhaps it just opens up a whole new world.

[rubberducke101]

I discovered about this a couple of months back but never fround the website. thanks!!!

i think the inotnation WILL never be 100% because of teh factors stated below but i think its definetely interesting and something to try out.
And lets be honest, if mr Vai is using it then it cant be too bad!!!!!

[Rick_Lamoreaux]

The biggest problem that I hate is with the B string. No matter what you do, you always have to have it slightly tuned flat to get it to sound right, up and down the fretboard.

[Stew]

I believe another factor is that a notes are not the same frequencies in different keys. I read Guthrie Govan's 2 books recently where he went on about that phenomenon and I think no matter what you do to the fret layout you will still be hit with this. I'll try and look this up tonight and post some more on it.

[bigdoug]

it seems very costly to make and will take a bit of getting used too, and how much better will it be than say the Buzz Feiten system.

[Scali]

I believe another factor is that a notes are not the same frequencies in different keys. I read Guthrie Govan's 2 books recently where he went on about that phenomenon and I think no matter what you do to the fret layout you will still be hit with this. I'll try and look this up tonight and post some more on it.

Exactly, this is why Bach came up with the Well-Tempered piano tuning.
They call it 'tempered' because it's some sort of 'averaged' tuning, where all keys sound equally in-tune (or out-of-tune, depending on how you look at it).
It was revolutionary at the time, because composers could now switch from one key to the next in the same piece of music, and still be in tune.
Bach wrote a series of songs to accompany this tuning, and some see Bach as the godfather of jazz music, because jazz music also revolves around key changes, different scales and chromaticism a lot.

These guys try to apply this idea to a guitar.
But a guitar is not a piano (a piano only uses open strings, each string used for only one note), so I wonder how well it works.

[zombo]

When you look at the guitar neck it feels like you've had 10 beers !

[Six]

I really cannot see the point. I mean, I know it's all about trying to obtain precise tuning but seriously, how many music listeners would actually know the difference between the precise tuning of this system, or the buzz feiten system, compared to that of an average guitar tuned in the usual way?
I would say the majority of guitarists probably wouldn't notice the difference and I doubt I would either.
I'm sure my enjoyment of music would not be enhanced just because a player was using these weird, wobbly looking frets. :lol:

[Rob]

Its hard enough playing on a standard neck, he must be bored :8000:

[Guitarpima]

I'm with Zombo. It was hurting my eyes looking at it. Music like anything else will always be imperfect. Strive for perfection but don't go nuts. Seems a little nuts not me.

They never show bends on those odd frets. I wonder why?

[Jack]

I'm an amateur luthier...
and this looks like one of my first fret-jobs...!!!!
:th_36_5_5:


http://www.truetemperament.com/gfx/true_temparementFront.jpg

[bwdavis99]

I guess if you were one of those people blessed or cursed with perfect pitch (depending on how you look at it) it might make a difference, can't see it being of any benefit to me

[bwdavis99]

and how do they cut those fret slots?

[Highway Star]

and how do they cut those fret slots?


CNC Router Barry.

Norman

[bigdoug]

Jack... that was funny :grin:

[ini]

What Stew and Scali said about the frequencies in different keys and Bach's tempered tuning is right.

The tonal difference between the note E and the note D is different in C-major than in D-Minor and Bach's tempered tuning averages out these differences so that it is possible to change keys within a song or play with a band.

Now the problem with these "true" tempered neck system is this: the frets are made so that the tonal intervals within a key are perfect. This means that the neck will sound better than regular guitar necks in the key it was manufactured for - but it will sound strange in other keys or when you play with a band, since all instruments are tuned to Bach's well tempered tuning.

So basically, you would have to get one neck for each key and your bandmates would have to retune their instruments to match your "perfect" tuning.

[tarquin]

there would only be a few people that would really notice this i'm sure

[bigdoug]

there would only be a few people that would really notice this i'm sure
yes starting with your bank manager :grin:

[Lewis]

Thanks too google I just found this thread.

It made me laugh I have a vision in my head of the luthier coming to work on monday morning still half drunk and trying to fit some frets. :-D

[midiwiz]

Compensated fretwires? What next ........

[midiwiz]

I'm gonna see if I can get the store to pop for one of these.......I'd like to give to try it out and that sounds like an affordable way to do so.