current world financial problems

[Rick]

of course its a guitar forum, but compost corner is for anything you might want to get off your chest so here we go.

Why should everybody have to bail the banks out, they are nothing but a bunch of thieves, the lot of em.
In the Usa Gw Bush wants to bung $700 bn into the system, i can bet you that it'll simply sort out the bank woes whilst the general joe punters will still have their houses repo'ed.
The banks have been turning in huge profits for as long as i can remember so where has all this booty gone?
they all just got to bloody greedy and its come back to bite them and now everybody has to bail them out and what thanks will we all get? we will get higher bank charges, lower interest on our savings, higher taxes.
grrrr


Now behind all this is an even bigger thief, this is the speculator.
These bastards drive the price of everything up or down at will in order to make more for themselves.
look at what they have done to fuel.

I know this should be in the moaning area, jeez i could go on all day.

[TheGummy]

it all seems a bit strange to me.

someone must have cocked up biiiig time for all this to have spiralled out of control, and unfortunately although i would like to, i dont understand enough about economics to know why exactly.

but like you say, it seems to me like the banks have cocked up by beeing too greedy, and i also think you're spot on by saying the banks will be bailed out, but the rest of the population will be left up the creek.

if anyone knows a bit more about what actually causes those numbers on tv to go up and down so drastically, and how one of them going down suddenly means the world is poor, i'd be interested to learn. it seems to me like everyone still has the same amount of money, despite that number going down rapidly lol, so i assume it must be some big companies (banks presumably?) cocking up somewhere along the line?

[Rob]

Bradford and Bingley just went tits up, and the goverment are using our hard money to save them, nationalise the bank then sell it off WTF I am sick of this country ripping me off the only thing that is still constantly low priced is BEER :8: thank fook for that :-)

[Rick]

one of the things that hacks me off so much is oil price changes, oil price changes fuel goes up at midnight, oil comes down fuel sneaks down over the next couple of weeks..
like am i blind?
oil is only so expensive because the speculators are making it that way and for no other reason.

I wonder if its possible to start a rumour and cause a run on a bank?
i bet its possible here, because its only a small country!

I would feel so good.

[TheGummy]

yea i know what you mean rick, it kind of seems like theres no substance behind these sudden changes, people just start to worry and then things go tits up from there.

it would probably be possible to do that rick, if all of us posted a webpage somewhere on the internet stating rumours about something happening, it would soon pick up steam.

[Stew]

Watch this space I heard an inside speculation over MFI and low and behold it was on internet news this week that they are in big trouble. This is going to impact most of us in some form...signed my guitars to my mum so they don't get repossessed :smile:

[Rick]

i to heard about mfi and lo and behold my kitchen fell to bits :lol:

[Viscolex]

the 700 billion bill was denied

[Stew]

i to heard about mfi and lo and behold my kitchen fell to bits :lol:
they tried to re-invent themselves with smart ads this year but people don't forget that at the end of the day it is plywood covered in laminate/veneer and splits and falls apart.

[ZappaFan]

When we have all been made as poor as poor can be by these bankers (yes i said bankers) MFI kitchens will be all we can afford and they'll make a killing

[Rob]

anyone got any savings in a bank? remove them and put them under your bed, at least if someone trys to take it without your consent you can make them taste a bit of pain :-)

[ZappaFan]

Makes me worry about any companies that are financed to the hilt with the banks, if the banks suddenly they decide they need their money back they are going to be shafted in a big way. I bet we will see even more pubs closing, they are having a tough enough time as it is with about 21 closing a week in the uk.

[ZappaFan]

anyone got any savings in a bank? remove them and put them under your bed, at least if someone trys to take it without your consent you can make them taste a bit of pain :-)

What are savings ?

Do you mean the GAS fund !! DAMN !!! Now I am worried !!!!

[midiwiz]

$700 billion is a pretty tough pill to swallow. Especially if your house has been repoe'd and now you find out the government want wants spend $2000+ (per person in the US) of your money to prop up the same bank that took your house. WTF??
If the banks are going belly up because their holding "toxic paper", a fancy way to describe worthless mortgages and other securities, how about we fix the problem from the bottom up. Pay off the mortgages with the $700 billion. The banks would be stabilized but but would see much less profit due too mortgages being paid off EARLY!! Maybe then Wallstreet will learn a lesson about greed from all this. But, if we just give them the money, gauranteed we or our children will experience this again.

[ZappaFan]

$700 billion is a pretty tough pill to swallow. Especially if your house has been repoe'd and now you find out the government want wants spend $2000+ (per person in the US) of your money to prop up the same bank that took your house. WTF??
If the banks are going belly up because their holding "toxic paper", a fancy way to describe worthless mortgages and other securities, how about we fix the problem from the bottom up. Pay off the mortgages with the $700 billion. The banks would be stabilized but but would see much less profit due too mortgages being paid off EARLY!! Maybe then Wallstreet will learn a lesson about greed from all this. But, if we just give them the money, gauranteed we or our children will experience this again.

Wise words there midiwiz :thumb:

[bigdoug]

here's the bit I dont get.. If the bank goes tits up then I would lose my savings(if I had any) but if the bank goes tits up somebody will still want me to pay my overdraft!!!! so how is that fair :grin:

Thank goodness I turned most of my spare cash into guitars (and a nice motorbike)

[Highway Star]

It will affect everyone I tell you!! Everyone!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Farley297/UKCreditCrunch.jpg

Poor bugger!!

Farl

[Rick]

how did she get that, she's got tatt's

[Guitarpima]

What sucks the most about all this is:

Who is getting the money?

Banks are buying each other out now. So why one person gets the help, the other is left to rot. I want to know who these players are and what ties do they have to the government. Espececially goerge bush.

Here is another big problem.

Ever hear of cash flows? Cash flows are the buying and selling of loans, credit debts, mortgages and even your bank accounts (not positive on the bank account part) One person lends the money and the borrower may have a problem and is late on a payment or whatever. The lender decides to sell your loan to another lender. The first lender gets the priciple plus a profit from the second lender. So instead of working with the borrower and coming to some agreement, they sell the loan around. Who has to pay this, the borrower. I'm not saying the barrower is not at some fault here but this is a HUGE problem of buying and selling of loans. This needs to stop.

I know I'm sick of hearing, "it's the people who should never have got the loans that messed it all up". (mocking tone) Come off it! Those banks were hoping this would happen so the old cash flow BS would make them money.

The worst thing about bailing out wall street is, "why should we invest a huge amount of money in the very genuis' that got us in this situation in the first place. What's probably going to happen is that there will end up being very few players left in the market and we will end up in a more socialized enviroment. The only problem there is that it will be more of a totalitarian feel.

All in all, let's look on the bright side. Maybe the world will end on December 21, 2012.

[Guitarpima]

$700 billion is a pretty tough pill to swallow. Especially if your house has been repoe'd and now you find out the government want wants spend $2000+ (per person in the US) of your money to prop up the same bank that took your house. WTF??
If the banks are going belly up because their holding "toxic paper", a fancy way to describe worthless mortgages and other securities, how about we fix the problem from the bottom up. Pay off the mortgages with the $700 billion. The banks would be stabilized but but would see much less profit due too mortgages being paid off EARLY!! Maybe then Wallstreet will learn a lesson about greed from all this. But, if we just give them the money, gauranteed we or our children will experience this again.

If they wanted to help the little guy, we would all get a shipment of vasaline in the mail.

[Six]

I'm perplexed and slightly amused by the hypocrisy that's in the (UK) newspapers and on the (UK) television news broadcasts.
I can't comment on other countries but over here we heard, on a continual basis, about the dramatic rise in house prices and about how something needs to be done because there are millions of people who simply cannot afford to get on the housing ladder.
Now we hear, on a continual basis, about how house prices are falling at a dramatic rate and millions of home-owners are finding themselves in negative equity and something needs to be done about it.

You can't please all the people all the time. Those who bought after the housing market had risen so sharply must surely have realised that at some point in time the prices would drop to some extent. All you have to do is look back at the housing market statistics for the last thirty years or so to see that house prices fluctuate, they always have done and they always will do, but in the long run they always end up more expensive. Think of it in terms of 'two steps forward then one step back', you'll always end up further forward even though you're sometimes going backwards. So those who do find themselves in negative equity only really have themselves to blame (harsh words if you're one of them but true all the same) and ultimately they won't lose out unless they intend to sell now, in which case they should have held off from buying when they did.
On the flip-side of the coin we have the people who are now rejoicing because for the last few years they simply could not buy a house... it was financially impossible, but now they see light at the end of the tunnel as the prices come tumbling down. They may finally have a chance to buy a house so to them this is all good news.
The ones who irritate me the most are those who bought a house when the prices were low... let's say £60k, saw the value (and I use that word loosely) of their house rise to... let's say £120k, and are now complaining because the value has dropped to... let's say £100k.

I say we should go back to basics... I'll grow a load of carrots and negotiate with you for one of your pigs.

Money... pah!... it's the root of all evil!!!

[midiwiz]

What sucks the most about all this is:

Who is getting the money?

Banks are buying each other out now. So why one person gets the help, the other is left to rot. I want to know who these players are and what ties do they have to the government. Espececially goerge bush.

Here is another big problem.

Ever hear of cash flows? Cash flows are the buying and selling of loans, credit debts, mortgages and even your bank accounts (not positive on the bank account part) One person lends the money and the borrower may have a problem and is late on a payment or whatever. The lender decides to sell your loan to another lender. The first lender gets the priciple plus a profit from the second lender. So instead of working with the borrower and coming to some agreement, they sell the loan around. Who has to pay this, the borrower. I'm not saying the barrower is not at some fault here but this is a HUGE problem of buying and selling of loans. This needs to stop.

I know I'm sick of hearing, "it's the people who should never have got the loans that messed it all up". (mocking tone) Come off it! Those banks were hoping this would happen so the old cash flow BS would make them money.

The worst thing about bailing out wall street is, "why should we invest a huge amount of money in the very genuis' that got us in this situation in the first place. What's probably going to happen is that there will end up being very few players left in the market and we will end up in a more socialized enviroment. The only problem there is that it will be more of a totalitarian feel.

All in all, let's look on the bright side. Maybe the world will end on December 21, 2012.

Up until two years ago, in the US the bank that wrote the mortgage had to hold the mortgages. Once those regulations were removed, the incentive was just to write the loan. It didn't matter to "
Joe Banker" wether the mortgage got paid or not, cause the bank just sell
the mortgage for a quick profit.

[Stew]

I'm perplexed and slightly amused by the hypocrisy that's in the (UK) newspapers and on the (UK) television news broadcasts.
I can't comment on other countries but over here we heard, on a continual basis, about the dramatic rise in house prices and about how something needs to be done because there are millions of people who simply cannot afford to get on the housing ladder.
Now we hear, on a continual basis, about how house prices are falling at a dramatic rate and millions of home-owners are finding themselves in negative equity and something needs to be done about it.

You can't please all the people all the time. Those who bought after the housing market had risen so sharply must surely have realised that at some point in time the prices would drop to some extent. All you have to do is look back at the housing market statistics for the last thirty years or so to see that house prices fluctuate, they always have done and they always will do, but in the long run they always end up more expensive. Think of it in terms of 'two steps forward then one step back', you'll always end up further forward even though you're sometimes going backwards. So those who do find themselves in negative equity only really have themselves to blame (harsh words if you're one of them but true all the same) and ultimately they won't lose out unless they intend to sell now, in which case they should have held off from buying when they did.
On the flip-side of the coin we have the people who are now rejoicing because for the last few years they simply could not buy a house... it was financially impossible, but now they see light at the end of the tunnel as the prices come tumbling down. They may finally have a chance to buy a house so to them this is all good news.
The ones who irritate me the most are those who bought a house when the prices were low... let's say £60k, saw the value (and I use that word loosely) of their house rise to... let's say £120k, and are now complaining because the value has dropped to... let's say £100k.

I say we should go back to basics... I'll grow a load of carrots and negotiate with you for one of your pigs.

Money... pah!... it's the root of all evil!!!
Good points Phil but it ain't just if you want to sell now and you have negative equity. For those that may want to just stay put and ride it out but mortgage is due for renewal...willl they get a mortgage? Don't think so the value of the house needs to exceed the value of the loan. If they do get a loan bet it will be cripplingly high.

My situation is that we sold this time last year and up'ed our house size for sake of the family. We put everything in house value back into the house previous remortgage to get as much done that needed done and then sold 3yrs into that 5yr deal. Got more for house but truth is put only about 10% into the new house. If papers are to believe and house prices dropped 10% in the year I now find myself in negative equity and my mortgage is due for renewal in April 2009. Are house proces going to fall more...probably. Upshot put 10yrs of payments into owning something and may have nothing to show for it. Also in service industry which you guys will agree is a "hostile" purchase so things don't look too rosy tbh.

I don't think I was at any time being greedy or over stretched my loans because each mortgage was well within 3x my annual salary and should have been easily paid in 25years.

I think the media has played a terrible role in all this. People still have their disposable incomes but are being cautious...to an extent unneccessarily for most and it has a knock on effect that service providers in all walks of life are taking the biggest hit.

Cast our minds back about 7-8 years to the fuel strike....remember the scenes at garages? That is right bunch of panickers this country because of our media. There was supermarkets getting wiped dry because people thought there was going to be a bread shortage.....bit like XMAS and the trolleys filled with loaves... is there a sandwich splurge at Xmas I never knew about... I eat Turkey personally lol.

Anyway

Things will correct themselves eventually...always does.

[Rob]

Personally even though I own my house, and have remortgaged to improve instead of moving, I really couldnt care less if I lived in a tent.

I am sick of being ripped off at every turn by everyone, tax office, local government service companys adding on charges if I dont want to pay by direct debit the whole bloody lot.

I have never seen such increases in prices in the supermarket, I had to buy tescos own brand soft cheese last week I was mortified :butt:

[Stew]

Personally even though I own my house, and have remortgaged to improve instead of moving, I really couldnt care less if I lived in a tent.

I am sick of being ripped off at every turn by everyone, tax office, local government service companys adding on charges if I dont want to pay by direct debit the whole bloody lot.

I have never seen such increases in prices in the supermarket, I had to buy tescos own brand soft cheese last week I was mortified :butt:yes agree Rob the food hike have been the hardest to swallow if you pardon the pun

[Stew]

It will affect everyone I tell you!! Everyone!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Farley297/UKCreditCrunch.jpg

Poor bugger!!

Farl
has she been promoted to fries yet? :lol:

[zombo]

It's about time that the military machine stops being fed thats were all our money goes it's the biggest business in the world!!

[Guitarpima]

It's about time that the military machine stops being fed thats were all our money goes it's the biggest business in the world!!

The sad part about that is that the bulk of the money spent on defense goes to private contractors. What's even worse about that is that the private contractors get paid 3 or 4 times as much as someone in the military for doing the same job the military should be doing. If that is not bad enough, the private contractors are not held to the same laws that our military is. It is disgusting what the private contractors get away with and it is our millitary that has to take the punishment, from the Iraquis, for the behavior of the private contractors. This war was not started for the freedom of Iraq. It was a way to for the very wealthy to make more money at the expense of the lives and welfare of the average people. What's worse about that? They have the mojority of them sold on the, "freedom for Iraq" BS.

Thankfully we put the new president in Afghanistan who is allowing the poppy feilds to flourish once again with the absense of the Taliban. There is a whole big can of worms going on there as well. Suffice to say, we would not have invaded Afghanistan had the Taliban gave the go ahead to build a pipeline through they're country.

[bigdoug]

things are so bad I have had to look into a duel fuel vehicle for travelling to work.
this is my first try.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n100/doug2112/motorbikes/DualFuel.jpg

[Stempy]

The problem lies with all of us and our want it now attitudes. Have any of you considered where money actually comes from. The fact is that money doesn't exist until you want it. You go to the bank to ask for a loan, the bank doesn't actually have anything to loan you, it relies on the fact that you will be able to pay for the loan and has the authority to allow you to take money that doesn't actually exist, so in fact you are creating the money for the bank. So not only do they get the money you wanted to borrow, they also get the interest they charge for creating that non existent money. It is obvious that eventually something is going to give and the whole system is going to collapse. Then we have a recession or even depression until the whole process starts all over again. The rich win, the poor lose and that's the way of the world.

[Rob]

things are so bad I have had to look into a duel fuel vehicle for travelling to work.
this is my first try.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n100/doug2112/motorbikes/DualFuel.jpg

aghhhhhhhh hahahahahahaha LOLOL BigD

[Rob]

The problem lies with all of us and our want it now attitudes. Have any of you considered where money actually comes from. The fact is that money doesn't exist until you want it. You go to the bank to ask for a loan, the bank doesn't actually have anything to loan you, it relies on the fact that you will be able to pay for the loan and has the authority to allow you to take money that doesn't actually exist, so in fact you are creating the money for the bank. So not only do they get the money you wanted to borrow, they also get the interest they charge for creating that non existent money. It is obvious that eventually something is going to give and the whole system is going to collapse. Then we have a recession or even depression until the whole process starts all over again. The rich win, the poor lose and that's the way of the world.

I think with the subprime market in the USA, they charged a little bit to much interest because they give loans to peeps with dodgy credit ratings, the thinking being they are dodgy so they are desperate, we can then charge more interest and take advantage like the greedy bastards they are, then when the poor people with the dodgy credit records cant pay the loans back because of the extortionate interest rates (why would they lend in the first place when they know the reason they are borrowing from them is that they couldnt pay back in the first place at the lower interest rates hence the bad credit) Shit happens!!

[Guitarpima]

The problem lies with all of us and our want it now attitudes. Have any of you considered where money actually comes from. The fact is that money doesn't exist until you want it. You go to the bank to ask for a loan, the bank doesn't actually have anything to loan you, it relies on the fact that you will be able to pay for the loan and has the authority to allow you to take money that doesn't actually exist, so in fact you are creating the money for the bank. So not only do they get the money you wanted to borrow, they also get the interest they charge for creating that non existent money. It is obvious that eventually something is going to give and the whole system is going to collapse. Then we have a recession or even depression until the whole process starts all over again. The rich win, the poor lose and that's the way of the world.

I think your confusing the whole money thing. The money does exist. The currency we use is backed up by gold in depositories. With this bail out deal the government passed, they can print more money without the gold to represent it. That brings down the value of the dollar and creates inflation.

The whole idea with banks is everyone keeps they're savings in checking or savings accounts. So the bank can only grow as long as it's customer base grows. When a bank loans money, it is loaning the customers money. They work on the sssupmtion that the customers will keep a substancial amount of money in the bank which is where the loan comes from. This is why we earn interest on our bank accounts. Although, it seems we don't get the interest we should. The bank makes money by earning the interest on the loans it gives out.

The problem is partly the subprime mortgages. As I see it, when Clinton was in office the American people were doing well. We had brought the debt bought about by 8 years of Reagan and 4 years of goerge h. w. bush. So with everyone doing well the market was free to grow. Then we get goerge w. bush and all heck breaks loose. 9/11 happens and now we have an excuse to go to war. The war is the trigger for all this kaos because who the heck can afford war?

Now we're at war and things slowly start to cost more and more becuase it's not safe anymore. We were bombarded by schitzophrantic government. "The enemy wants us dead"! Take precautions, be watchful and by all means, go shopping. It's enough to make you crazy.

You want to be really upset about all this? Guess who makes the most money from this war as well as oil profits? The bush family and friends. They have ties with all the major players. Black Water, Halleburton, KBR and the Bin Ladens. Here's one I bet none of you know. Osama Bin Laden and goerge w. bush used to play together as kids! Do you really think that the Bin Ladens are going to sit by while we kill one of they're own?

It's a sad, sad world.

[Rick]

when all these bail outs are over, all the banks will be totally cashed up again and obviously all the big banks will have eaten up all their competitors at knock down rates.

answer this, I know this deal fell through but.
wachovia was being bought out by citibank.
the same citibank who were cap in hand only a few weeks back and got a bail out.
so did the bail out help the current crisis or what?

[Stempy]

With regard to the gold, I have to point out that there ain't enough gold in the whole world to cover the amount of money in circulation at current values, hence my comment that the money doesn't exist.

It's true though that what the banks rely on is that you won't actually want to withdraw your savings so they can loan your money to other people and charge them a fee for doing so, which is how they make money. The trouble comes when the people they loaned your money to can't pay it back, so now they owe you the money but don't have it, so when you go to withdraw your money they have to cover it. Obviously they will soon run out of funds if enough folk don't pay back. Rumour gets around that the bank may be running out of cash, everyone tries to withdraw their savings for fear of losing it and crash.

[Stew]

They played together as kids? where did that come from? having read that line a tried searching that on the net and found absolutely nothing other than questions "what if they palyed together as kids?"

Stempy I think that each country does have to have enough reserves of gold to cover their own currency in circulation so there is indeed a realness to all of it.

[Guitarpima]

I don't think you'll find proof Stew. The Bin Ladens and the bushes have been working together for quite a long time. So you can bet that they have visited each others homes as business partners do.

That's why the value of the dollar goes down Stempy. I guess it drives the value of gold down as well? I'm not an expert by even the longest shot.

[midiwiz]

I don't think you'll find proof Stew. The Bin Ladens and the bushes have been working together for quite a long time. So you can bet that they have visited each others homes as business partners do.

That's why the value of the dollar goes down Stempy. I guess it drives the value of gold down as well? I'm not an expert by even the longest shot.

Lets look at it this way. You have one 1lb ingot of gold and you print 16 dollars based on that 1lb ingot you have in your reserve. Each of your dollars is worth one oz. of gold and that just happens to be the price that "Joe Farmer" will sell you a pig for.
Now lets say instead you printed 160 dollars based on your one pound of gold reserve. Each dollar is now only worth a 1/10th of an oz. of gold and "Farmer Joe" says since a pig is still worth an oz. of gold you need nine more bucks if you want to by one. Hence inflation. Gold value is pretty much constant any fluctuations in that value usually result from the amount of money being printed against that reserve.

[zeusse]

You'll never stop the greed in this world its part of human nature unfortunately. I'm greedy and I'll admit it as low as that is...I'm gonna get my hands on everything I can and worry about number #1......Is that shallow...YES! but I got lots of toys to pay for and I can't live without them. Everytime I fire up the SUV and shove another pile of gas into it and drive down the street I'm still happy to have that luxury because of my greed. In a round about way I'm providing jobs and without that attitude of consumers we are all in trouble. Yes doing things the moraly correct way might sound all warm and fuzzy but lets be realistic the economic engine is the middle class guys spending their dough. So I have no choice but to be greedy to keep the dude that brings me my beer at the pub employed......I'm creating an economy....are the fat cat high earner bankers over paid? sure they are and maybe should be cut back a bit but that would cause the high life style services to suffer.....ohh now who's gonna buy that Ferrari now....now my wife is unemployed her company makes the headlights for those things.....she'll say sorry honey I'm not in the mood tonight I just got laid off....damm thats not happening in my world....What I'm trying to say is regardless of how noble the idea of being frugal is it just won't help the economy regardless of what your good intentions are. We will continue to spend and fill the fat cats wallets and in the end bail out the banks bad business decisions they are only held accountable by the shareholders which are guys like me that buy the stock and also loose when they screw up I am my own worst enemy. But thats the way the system works, and I learn to adjust to these downturns in the economy by getting informed about the best ways to invest my meager earnings. My stock broker might be very rich but he makes me richer cause he's greedy....I can live with that. Break things down to this would you rather be wealthy with less morals or poor with good intentions? I grew up poor my father always had good intentions but in the end he regretted not being greedy enough. ....You might hate my outlook on this but I'm an honest crook....if there is such a thing.....happy capatilism:100:.....quite pathetic isn't it...LOL

[bwdavis99]

The US Dollar is not and has not been backed by gold deposits for years, the dodgy loans were made because the dodgy politicians made the banks give them to the dodgy borrowers so they would vote for the dodgy politicians, now the dodgy politicians feel the need to bail out the dodgy banks with the dodgy loans so they can continue to bank their dodgy re-election campaigns that prey on the dodgy borrowers for votes. The Congress could suspend the capital gains tax for a year or two and clear this whole mess in short order, but that would be a tax break for the rich people so they won't do it. Well here's a reality check the rich have the money to stimulate the economy, the poor have no money! Until the US voters wholesale the Senate and the Congress they won't get the message, and you can belly ache to your blue in the face over who's President, in this country he can't change anything without Congress and Senate's approval and they can override his veto

[zeusse]

The US Dollar is not and has not been backed by gold deposits for years, the dodgy loans were made because the dodgy politicians made the banks give them to the dodgy borrowers so they would vote for the dodgy politicians, now the dodgy politicians feel the need to bail out the dodgy banks with the dodgy loans so they can continue to bank their dodgy re-election campaigns that prey on the dodgy borrowers for votes. The Congress could suspend the capital gains tax for a year or two and clear this whole mess in short order, but that would be a tax break for the rich people so they won't do it. Well here's a reality check the rich have the money to stimulate the economy, the poor have no money! Until the US voters wholesale the Senate and the Congress they won't get the message, and you can belly ache to your blue in the face over who's President, in this country he can't change anything without Congress and Senate's approval and they can override his vetoYep exactly! The real power is in the Senate...and who controls these guys...think about it

[bwdavis99]

Yep exactly! The real power is in the Senate...and who controls these guys...think about it

Amen Bro, a Politicians first job is to get re-elected then he might consider something for the good of the country right after he's taken care of his wallet

[midiwiz]

Well, it's looking like that bailout plan was $700 billion wasted in taxpayer money. Markets in the US have lost damn near 20% in value since it was passed.
I think GWB just wanted the Fed to be in control of what institutions failed and which are bailed. If so, it all boiled down to the same old shit.........partisan politics.

[Rick]

or look at it this way.. somebody just earned $700 bn.
i wonder who.

:shock:

[Guitarpima]

Yep exactly! The real power is in the Senate...and who controls these guys...think about it

I heard a comedian say that the politicians should wear patches and hats like the people of Nascar. That way we know who they are representing.

[zeusse]

I heard a comedian say that the politicians should wear patches and hats like the people of Nascar. That way we know who they are representing.It ain't the taxpayer...LOL

[midiwiz]

Anyboby else find it coincidental that GWB wanted $700 Billion with no oversite as to how it would be spent, and that our current bill for the Iraq war is roughly $700 Billion? Anybody besides me thinking maybe the Chinese called in their dept? Maybe they took away George's credit card? Maybe the reason the markets reacted so adversely is because the money never made it to where the Feds said it would be going. Instead it went to pay off war dept. But I digress............Oh, an feel free to call me a conspiracy buff..........the shoe fits so I'll wear it.

[bwdavis99]

Anyboby else find it coincidental that GWB wanted $700 Billion with no oversite as to how it would be spent, and that our current bill for the Iraq war is roughly $700 Billion? Anybody besides me thinking maybe the Chinese called in their dept? Maybe they took away George's credit card? Maybe the reason the markets reacted so adversely is because the money never made it to where the Feds said it would be going. Instead it went to pay off war dept. But I digress............Oh, an feel free to call me a conspiracy buff..........the shoe fits so I'll wear it.

Well, it wouldn't be that easy, the legislation that did pass has some controls, it's not a quick fix though. They need to suspend the capitol gains tax, that would have much faster impact

Barry

[midiwiz]

Well, it wouldn't be that easy, the legislation that did pass has some controls, it's not a quick fix though. They need to suspend the capitol gains tax, that would have much faster impact

Barry

Suspending any tax you would think would be irrelevant since nobody's supposed to be making money on this bailout plan. If you want to spur the economy, you need to put money in the hands of people who are going to spend it. I personally know of nobody who is subject to capital gains tax.
And, most of those same people are pretty much living from week to week(what would you expect, we're musicians lolol). Put money in their hands and it would be back in the economy in a week. So, how about we suspend Federal Income Tax and Social Security? Problem with all these tax break ideas is that they add to the national dept which the interest alone on is $100's of billions a year and is indeed a factor in this whole financial crisis.

[Guitarpima]

Why suspend federal income tax and socail security? If you think we can get out of this without raising taxes, I have a few bridges that I aquired as of late and would be happy to sell them to you at bargain prices.

Everyone wants to stop social security and welfare and all those programs which account for very little of national spending. Why don't we stop paying Black water, KBR, Haleburton and all the rest of those thieves which account for probably 3/4 of the money spent on the war in Iraq? That's where most of the money is going.

I suppose health care is too expensive for the government to take care of also? A politician in Great Britain said after the wwII, "if we can spend so much money to kill prople, why can't we spend as much to heal people"? (I forget his name but I bet Zappafan knows it.)

The bottom line is the people with the money and power got us into this and we'll have to wait till they finish screwing us over and get on with it.

[ZappaFan]

Well it seems that our government has bought us all some shares in a few banks, £37 Billion worth, lets hope that when they start to get themselves sorted out I will get my share dividends ....... I'll be rich rich rich ........ and wont ever have to borrow from a bank again. Then again it would seem that some of the money they now have belongs to me anyway so maybe I can borrow it for free ..... now thats what I call a deal. Aint it just great what our governments do for us, we should be so proud of them and their dedication to provide sound decisions that in the end benefit us all and not just the fat cats in the city.

Fantastic.

:wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:

[midiwiz]

Why suspend federal income tax and socail security? If you think we can get out of this without raising taxes, I have a few bridges that I aquired as of late and would be happy to sell them to you at bargain prices.

Everyone wants to stop social security and welfare and all those programs which account for very little of national spending. Why don't we stop paying Black water, KBR, Haleburton and all the rest of those thieves which account for probably 3/4 of the money spent on the war in Iraq? That's where most of the money is going.

I suppose health care is too expensive for the government to take care of also? A politician in Great Britain said after the wwII, "if we can spend so much money to kill prople, why can't we spend as much to heal people"? (I forget his name but I bet Zappafan knows it.)

The bottom line is the people with the money and power got us into this and we'll have to wait till they finish screwing us over and get on with it.

I have no problem agreeing with everything you say so how about we have that top 1% who have reeped the benefits of the GWB tax cuts pay for that bailout.

[zeusse]

That bailout won't even be enough to pay the intrerest payment to the Chinese that hold the majority of the US debt....what is it now about 3 trillion...give or take a few 100 billion. The banks might as well get it, otherwise they won't secure any more loans for anybody...its not the little guy looking for a mortgage that has his act together thats the problem...its the big companies that use the bank to do payroll...without that the economy goes into disaster. But regardless its a band-aid solution to the problem...the US has to pull out of the middle east....to get stability on the stock market and then as the oil prices continue to lower the cash will flow back into the economy instead of the Saudi's pockets...until then more band-aids will be put on the boo-boo's...interest fees will also drop the only problem with that is the bond traders take a hit so they won't be getting that new Porshe this Christmas...boohoo!

[Stempy]

And can you believe that the UK government are now going to loan money to Iceland so that they can afford to pay back the UK investors who deposited their funds in the risky Icelandic banks in the hope of a fast buck!

[ZappaFan]

And can you believe that the UK government are now going to loan money to Iceland so that they can afford to pay back the UK investors who deposited their funds in the risky Icelandic banks in the hope of a fast buck!

My local Council here in NUneaton are one those investors, having put 3 Million of our council tax money in there, Muppets !!

[Stew]

can I ask in all the billions mention are the Bristisha nd American;'s quoting the same thing? My understanding is UK billion= 1 million million in other word 12zeros! with US billion 1 thousand million in other words 9 zeros.....this would effectively make the bailout UK has just done make the US bailout look like pocket money??

[ZappaFan]

can I ask in all the billions mention are the Bristish and American;'s quoting the same thing? My understanding is UK billion= 1 million million in other word 12zeros! with US billion 1 thousand million in other words 9 zeros.....this would effectively make the bailout UK has just done make the US bailout look like pocket money??

I think you need the Open University forum for that one Stew, I ran out of fingers trying to work it out .... :-D

[bwdavis99]

12 zeroe's is a trillion isn't it? We had to get a new national debt clock cause the old wouldn't do double didget trillions, that probably cost another trillion!!!!!

[ZappaFan]

12 zeroe's is a trillion isn't it? We had to get a new national debt clock cause the old wouldn't do double didget trillions, that probably cost another trillion!!!!!

Here in the UK a Billion is a million*million ie., 1,000,000,000,000
In the states you would call that a trillion.

I think in the world of banking they must use one or the other as the standard though. However I have no idea which one it is. It would be nice if someone could tell us as it kinda makes a big difference to the amount of our public funds that are being thrown into keeping these financial institues afloat.

It seems that WIKI has the answer:-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion_(word)

and it all changed here in the UK in 1974 when a Billion became accpeted to be 1,000,000,000. It must have been around the same time that all Wimpy burger bars in th UK started to close and McDonalds and Burger King started to take their place. So it seems that many things got devalued at that time and we lost the squeezie tomato bottle that held the ketchup. Where were the governments when that drastic event took place ?

[zeusse]

and it all changed here in the UK in 1974 when a Billion became accpeted to be 1,000,000,000. It must have been around the same time that all Wimpy burger bars in th UK started to close and McDonalds and Burger King started to take their place. So it seems that many things got devalued at that time and we lost the squeezie tomato bottle that held the ketchup. Where were the governments when that drastic event took place ?But I like my Wimpy's burger we got a few locations here....should I be fearful?LOL

[ZappaFan]

But I like my Wimpy's burger we got a few locations here....should I be fearful?LOL

They have virtually disappeared over here now ......... shame I knida liked them too. At least they did a meal on a plate and not in a foam box or cardboard box ..... the worlds gone mad you know. Big banks trying to rule the financial world, Fat cats getting richer off it and other companies feeding us over inflated crappy products that we don't want. Seems that the choice we used to have over how we lived our lives is being taken away from us by the city slickers and investors. Whilst the global companies that run our food suppliers drive up profits to feed the needs of the city we all suffer by lower quality and higher prices. I deliberately go out of my way now to shop by buying locally produced goods. Just so I can feel that I have a choice. Whatever happened to the 'customer service' that we had years ago. We all felt important when we went to a store, people tried to help you find the things you were after. That was even the same with the banks. Now we have to go cap in hand to even get our own money from them.

Here's a thing. ...... I had one of the companies I work for give me a cheque a few weeks back. They hadn't filled the name out on it just the amount. So I made it payable to 'CASH' and took it into the bank to get the money, a perfectly acceptable thing to do you would think. You would think that I had walked in and tried to rob the place. Could I provide some ID, yep no problems, my driving licence produced,. Did I have a covering letter of authority to remove the cash, nope !! They would have to contact the people to check that everything was above board, yep okay go ahead. They wanted me to pay for the phone call, i don't f**kin' think so. So they make me hang about for about twenty minutes whilst the teller speaks to this person and that to find out what to do. I had an answer, 'just give me what is now, MY money'. It had been signed over to me by process of them writing the cheque!!! It eventually took them over an hour, to contact the company, then give me a couple of grand of my money. No wonder they are going to the wall !! In future I shall keep my money where I know it's safe and easy to get at. 'IN MY POCKET'

[zeusse]

I feel that pain here last year I had to cash a cheque the boss gave me for some reimbursement expenses it was about 3000.00 or so I even went to their bank that issued the cheque and they still called him to confirm it...I just started laughing at them...and said" He's gotta one of your largest clients and owns half this town and you still gotta call"....friggin amazing...and that was after all the I.D. shown...So just to cheese them off I decided to take my money in 5 dollar bills...the teller tried to get out of it and after the line was getting long, I turned to all the people in line and said" Darn you better go to the other bank down the street this one is out of 5 dollar bills"....she wanted to whack me with the rubber stamp...LOL