Financial moan

[Stempy]

I have been paying into a private pension scheme for a few years and thought I would review it recently. It turns out that it's worth 15% less than I've actually paid in yet the law says I can't take the money and invest it elsewhere as it's a pension and I'm not allowed to have my own money until I'm 55. So I have to leave it with the fund managers to lose even more for me. By the time I'm 55 there will nothing left the way things are going.

Moan over.

[Guitarpima]

How about some of the already retired. I can't remember exactly. They have to cash in their portfolio's and take whatever they get. At a loss! Not positive but that's what I remember. It is a law also. Don't that suck.

[bigdoug]

Bummer

[mullyman]

I refuse to pay into any pension plans. I'll just save up and go at it on my own. Nothing is safe when someone else is taking care of your cash. Screw that.
MULLY
I don't have life insurance either because the day I sign it something will happen

[zeusse]

I feel for you man same thing going on here all my investments took a hit and my house value dropped 25000 since all this crap started...hold strong dude it will pick up down the road...my wife is out of work and is gonna go back to school she just told me.....ain't no jobs around here at the moment for her so she might as well go back to school....mmmmm I'm married to a school girl......there has to be an upside to that :cheerlead_smilie:

[bigdoug]

Does she get a uniform........

[Rick]

we've gone from 6.25% interest to 1% loosing fortunes, but i have a cunning plan.

[davros]

Im skint. no savings, no investments...... I thought I'd be a dead rockstar by now.
:eh:

[Rick]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8037233.stm

bastards, we are skint, give us some cash, we can't help anybody, you'll all have to go bankrupt.

then they turn in a super duper huge profit.
bastards, i just knew it.

[Rob]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8037233.stm

bastards, we are skint, give us some cash, we can't help anybody, you'll all have to go bankrupt.

then they turn in a super duper huge profit.
bastards, i just knew it.

They are just like the mafia, same as the catholic church all in it for money they take the piss out of us all, tbh pointless working I can't be arsed anymore, screwed at every corner :drunk:

[Stew]

Erm just like to say not i would defend the banks but Barclays were the only ones that felt they were not in trouble and were raising money outwith the government help. If the article had been about HBOS or RBS I would be livid jsut now. But hey the way i look at it if they are returning a good profit things must be improving otherwise they would be gettting dragged down too.....always look for the positive!!!

[Rob]

Erm just like to say not i would defend the banks but Barclays were the only ones that felt they were not in trouble and were raising money outwith the government help. If the article had been about HBOS or RBS I would be livid jsut now. But hey the way i look at it if they are returning a good profit things must be improving otherwise they would be gettting dragged down too.....always look for the positive!!!

No stew that was HSBC!!

[Rick]

barclays said they would dig themselves out of there own hole.
if it was me i would throw them right back in.

[ZappaFan]

I know the huge profits thing is a bit of an insult in these hard financial times. It does however raise the question 'if barclays can do this, what the hell were all the other muppets in the banking world up to ?'

[wahwah]

I have bits and pieces of pensions but decided 10 year ago there was no point as someone in the know told me I would have to be putting £200 a month away from the age of 20 to get a liveable pension. When I retire it will cost £9.00 a can for stella and you'll have to take a small mortgage out to have yer teeth seen to! I went to the dentist last week and they gave me a classic Alice Cooper line...'yer teeth are ok but ya gums gotta go!' (Unfinished Sweet off of Billion Dollar Babies...a seriously good tune!) and a set of platinum gnashers would be upwards of a grand. I told her to give them to a T2.

[wahwah]

Im skint. no savings, no investments...... I thought I'd be a dead rockstar by now.
:eh:

Me too brother!

[Rick]

I know the huge profits thing is a bit of an insult in these hard financial times. It does however raise the question 'if barclays can do this, what the hell were all the other muppets in the banking world up to ?'

what they are up to is stashing the dosh away from prying eyes and crying wolf.

bastards!

[Guitarpima]

Don't take this the wrong way guy but, as a whole, we are a bunce of fuckin' reetards.

I don't know why, as a whole, we let this continue? AFAIK, France have the right idea. If the government does not help the people, take to the streets and protest. It usually turns into a riot but it will serve it's purpose. What makes me angry about this whole financial meltdown? It's the people with the money who created the problem (mostly), and it's the people who don't have the money that has to bail out the people with the money. So, they lose our money and expect us to pay more money to get the money of ours they lost in the first place. So we end up paying twice as much to fatten they're pockets. Fuck them!!!

Capitalism is and always will be, Doomed to fail. For those that would say, "show me a better way", I would never presume to know a better way. Ironic isn't it. Dammed if you do or don't.

[Rick]

well i don't take it, i hate them they make nothing out of me.
infact i reckon i'm a fair few bob up no them.

[wahwah]

Don't take this the wrong way guy but, as a whole, we are a bunce of fuckin' reetards.

I don't know why, as a whole, we let this continue? AFAIK, France have the right idea. If the government does not help the people, take to the streets and protest. It usually turns into a riot but it will serve it's purpose. What makes me angry about this whole financial meltdown? It's the people with the money who created the problem (mostly), and it's the people who don't have the money that has to bail out the people with the money. So, they lose our money and expect us to pay more money to get the money of ours they lost in the first place. So we end up paying twice as much to fatten they're pockets. Fuck them!!!

Capitalism is and always will be, Doomed to fail. For those that would say, "show me a better way", I would never presume to know a better way. Ironic isn't it. Dammed if you do or don't.


I agree wholeheartedly on this. We're a lazy nation. If they declared a war no-one would turn up. As long as people have booze, fags and telly, they reckon they're ok...

[Rob]

If I wasn't married with a family to support I would be doing a robin hood right now both barrells ' say hello to my little friends ' and gimme all your fookin money GORDON!!

[bigdoug]

I read about a great plan in an American bike forum, the government should give all the tax payers a million pounds each, then we have to buy a house or pay off the mortgage then buy a new car/ motorbike (made in your own country). now that would stimulate the economy and still be cheaper than all the dosh we have paid out to these greedy robbin barstewards.

[Danny Danzi]

Don't take this the wrong way guy but, as a whole, we are a bunce of fuckin' reetards.

I don't know why, as a whole, we let this continue? AFAIK, France have the right idea. If the government does not help the people, take to the streets and protest. It usually turns into a riot but it will serve it's purpose. What makes me angry about this whole financial meltdown? It's the people with the money who created the problem (mostly), and it's the people who don't have the money that has to bail out the people with the money. So, they lose our money and expect us to pay more money to get the money of ours they lost in the first place. So we end up paying twice as much to fatten they're pockets. Fuck them!!!

Capitalism is and always will be, Doomed to fail. For those that would say, "show me a better way", I would never presume to know a better way. Ironic isn't it. Dammed if you do or don't.

So well said, Robert. What's really bad also is those of us who are fortunate to have found a niche` making a few bucks are giving away more than 1/3 of our income these days. If a revolution does break out, I want to be on the front lines. I don't have a wife, children or anything other than my father at the moment and who knows how many years I have left with him. This world sucks and what's worse is, it's all of us againt how many politicians? There is no politician that will save us in this lifetime as far as I'm concerned. Other than Christ himself coming down and wiping out the evil, it's upto us to do it unfortunately.

I look at it this way, what do I really have to live for at this point? Seriously...here I am, a well off man that is fortunate to have lived on this earth and lived the life I have lived...yet, in a heartbeat I can throw it all away and willingly go and die on the front lines of a revolution. Seriously man, what is there to look forward to? I'm 42....I will lose more of my loved ones either to illness, disease, famine, war, bankruptcy, they take everything I have to where I have to work double just to live a certain way because the taxes are so severe, my house is paid for yet the property taxes are so high and keep on rising, why keep giving away my money....who could want to live today?

I pay $400 a month for medical insurance out of my own pocket that I don't even use, yet when I get old, they will pro-rate me or cut me off after going over a certain amount and totally forget that I paid all this money into the system my entire life for something I have never used. I really feel like I work for the government. I made good money last year...I had to pay 25k in taxes! 25k in taxes because I worked 7 days a week and tried to make something of myself! Is that fair really? Now, what about all the taxes I paid and overseas tariffs as well? I mean shit, when does it end?

We pay taxes, income tax, state taxes, local taxes, where is all the money going? How can they even raise our taxes or give us any shit? If it weren't for us, there would be no world...who are they to make decisions on OUR money? It's just wrong! I used to say my prayers at night and thank God for the beautiful world He's given us. It still is a beautiful world and I thank Him each night, but the beauty in this world is fading by the minute due to the evil that runs it called "government."

We got old folks here in NJ that have had their homes paid off since the 80's. They can't stay in them and are forced to move or go back to work at 70+ years old because they can't afford the property taxes. How sad is that? Can you imagine not having a mortgage and not being able to stay in your home due to property taxes? It's all just totally out of hand now on all counts. Something must be done, but unfortunately, I do not think there is a peaceful solution. We just need to take back our world.

[Rick]

we should write a song.
no shortage of material here, somehow though i think it might not get to much airtime..

on that note i'm off to france to burn some sheep.

[Stew]

barclays said they would dig themselves out of there own hole.
if it was me i would throw them right back in.
sorry I worded my answer wrong Rick they were in trouble but wanted to get out it themselves adn Zap is quite right if they can do the rest of the blighters can too!!

[Guitarpima]

Everyone should go with this idea:

I have family. I love my family. So does everyone else. In the grand sceme of things, we are all a family on this earth.

It's a shame (as a whole) we love money more than family.

[Danny Danzi]

Everyone should go with this idea:

I have family. I love my family. So does everyone else. In the grand sceme of things, we are all a family on this earth.

It's a shame (as a whole) we love money more than family.

Hey Robert, let me ask ya man...though all of the above that you said makes complete sense, do you think our love for money has anything to do with how much we are tax slaves and are forced to work double just to survive? I mean aren't we somewhat thrown into survival mode to where the love of money is more for survival than love of material posessions or toys, houses, cars etc?

If we had different government and higher powers running things the way they should be run, don't you think none of us would be stressed out and put into survival mode? I look at things this way...if we have our health, can pay our bills and be good people, work hard and get what you earn, that takes 95% of peoples survival stress away.

When you hear that a 401k plan lost mega bucks that you worked hard for your entire life and upon retirement, you may not be able to retire at all....doesn't this put money near the top of the list because you don't have a choice? See my point? Sure, deep inside, we all love our families first and foremost, but the lack of money or being in survival mode 24/7 can wreak havoc on any family and damge it beyond repair depending on the situation, ya know what I mean?

Even bank accounts man. We have always pretty much (until recently) depended on and trusted in banks because they rule the world. Who would have ever thought bank accounts would crash and the FDIC would have to be re-adjusted? Can you imagine having $300,000 in the bank, that bank goes belly up, and the FDIC only insured you for $100,000? The problem there is people never thought the banks would crash...so those that had more than $100k never thought for a second they would lose that money.

But low and behold, several have. I myself have always been weary of banks and investments. My grandfather years ago...before he died, took me to a secret place in his basement where he had a hole in the wall type safe that me made himself. He could barely speak english....he said "you see this money Danny? It's been here since I came here in the late 1800's....it will always be here unless I spend it or give it all away. Don't invest, you lose....keep it, you earned it and you will always have it. Greed will be the end of all mankind."

With that, he gave me about $2000 because he knew he was going to die soon. The weird thing about that stack of money....all the money was crispy and brand new, yet the dates on those bills read from 1918 to 1983. That's pretty amazing when you think about it. So I listened to him and haven't done any major investments. I have several bank accounts instead of just one. Of course now the FDIC has raised it's insurance, but I was already ahead of them. :) I have money overseas where the dollar is strong in some countries. I have long term CD's that earn anywhere from 4.5% to 5.1%. Though that isn't much, it sure ain't bad when you have $50k to $100k going into it. And, it's money I won't touch unless I decide to retire or use it for an emergency.

I have this nice little account I started overseas with $10k. I started it in 1999 and in 10 years, it's accumulated into a nice little rainy day account and it's all 0 risk. Little things like that can make a difference...but if you're not smart and you're not thinking ahead, you can crash and burn just like the rest of the world. But that said, do you see what I'm forced to do? I have to hide what I can when I can. I was never on the books for much money when I worked, so this means if there is social security left when I go to retire, I'm lucky if I will see $500 a month. LOL! Who can live off of that? So I've had to make arrangements starting back years ago. But I sincerely feel our love for money is more survival in these times over just loving money. When you find out you may be losing your home or something, you're in a different frame of mind. When the whole world is on its knees, you have to do what you have to do to survive and unfortunately, money is 50% of what is needed....the other 50% is your health so you can even work to survive...or whatever else this world may force us to do.

[Guitarpima]

Hey Robert, let me ask ya man...though all of the above that you said makes complete sense, do you think our love for money has anything to do with how much we are tax slaves and are forced to work double just to survive? I mean aren't we somewhat thrown into survival mode to where the love of money is more for survival than love of material posessions or toys, houses, cars etc?

If we had different government and higher powers running things the way they should be run, don't you think none of us would be stressed out and put into survival mode? I look at things this way...if we have our health, can pay our bills and be good people, work hard and get what you earn, that takes 95% of peoples survival stress away.

I wholeheartedly say yes.

Look at it like this. If everyone had purpose then we would be better off. This is what I mean. people are driven to do what they feel they need to do as far as what work they do. Some want to be doctors, some lawyers. some chefs or whatever. You wanted to play music right from the start. I always did too. The difference between us is you became exceptional at it and I can just play well. I am a methodical person. Probably becuase I've always had bad eyesight. I was happy teaching when I taught back in the early 90's. I was best at teaching beginners becuase I could make sure that when they advance past me, they had all the tools to become a great player if it was in them. If my eysight was normal, I would have done something to where my strength lies. I am very mechanicly inclined so I would have done something like that and music would have been second.

The thing that REALLY bugs me is those who want to be teachers. Not the teachers themselves but the way we treat them. To me it is EXTREMELY appalling that teachers have to struggle to make ends meet. Then we have athletes who make million a year for playing a game. Which job is more important? Even actors and musicians get paid to much. I'm not saying that they don't work as hard but let's get real here. This subject can have a lot of debate because all of them have to work very hard and there is no easy solution. I'll leave it with this. I am upset that Pete Rose is not in the baseball hall of fame. They say, "he bet on baseball. He doesn't desever it." I say, "if it were not for gambling, players would not get paif so much in the first place." what hippocracy.

As far as saving for the future and all the bs. I'm going blind man. I already fucked. I've heard the "you get what you put into it" and am sick of that. I'm good at music. I can play well, not like you but I can do well. I'll see when the time comes.

[Stempy]

Life has a way of being very cruel sometimes. I seem to have had a whole string of bad things happen to me this year. First I lose my job, then my father passes away, the engine on my van has self destructed, my central heating has packed up, I'm owed money by people who don't want to pay, my investment are worth a fraction of what they should be and I have developed tendonitis in my left hand. I could go on but I'd just depress myself even further.

The point I'm making here is that you just have to take what life throws at you and carry on, otherwise there is only one other alternative. Sometimes things really do suck, there are many, many injustices in this world, but there is very little most of us can do about them. The system is wrong, it's always been wrong and always will be wrong as long as money and greed rule the world, which will most likely be in perpetuity, so the way I see it is that you have to accept that and try to do what's best for you and those you love.

[Danny Danzi]

I wholeheartedly say yes.

Look at it like this. If everyone had purpose then we would be better off. This is what I mean. people are driven to do what they feel they need to do as far as what work they do. Some want to be doctors, some lawyers. some chefs or whatever. You wanted to play music right from the start. I always did too. The difference between us is you became exceptional at it and I can just play well. I am a methodical person. Probably becuase I've always had bad eyesight. I was happy teaching when I taught back in the early 90's. I was best at teaching beginners becuase I could make sure that when they advance past me, they had all the tools to become a great player if it was in them. If my eysight was normal, I would have done something to where my strength lies. I am very mechanicly inclined so I would have done something like that and music would have been second.

The thing that REALLY bugs me is those who want to be teachers. Not the teachers themselves but the way we treat them. To me it is EXTREMELY appalling that teachers have to struggle to make ends meet. Then we have athletes who make million a year for playing a game. Which job is more important? Even actors and musicians get paid to much. I'm not saying that they don't work as hard but let's get real here. This subject can have a lot of debate because all of them have to work very hard and there is no easy solution. I'll leave it with this. I am upset that Pete Rose is not in the baseball hall of fame. They say, "he bet on baseball. He doesn't desever it." I say, "if it were not for gambling, players would not get paif so much in the first place." what hippocracy.

As far as saving for the future and all the bs. I'm going blind man. I already fucked. I've heard the "you get what you put into it" and am sick of that. I'm good at music. I can play well, not like you but I can do well. I'll see when the time comes.

Well said Robert....but I gotta tell ya man, the part about me being exceptional etc....I thank you for that, but let me say, so much of it was luck. If I shared my story with you, you'd be like..."you gotta be kidding me?!" It's all luck, being in the right place at the right time, who you know, who they know...it's a crap shoot really. I actually make more money these days producing and mastering because I haven't put out an album since 2004. LOL! I still make money on the little sales that trickle in, but it's more on the publishing front. You mention about playing well....Cobain didn't play well at all, but he played well enough to inspire an entire generation. It's more than I'll ever be able to do even though I like to think I have a little bit of skill. But it's all moot really. Right place, right time, right people, right style. I was born 10 years too late for my style of music...so, I've elected to inspire the generation of 6sh members instead of targeting the world. I'm much happier having this place as my opportunity and I get much more respect and friendship out of the deal. :)

Uggh....the Pete Rose thing is something that's always bothered me...so you'renot alone there. He was on my Phillies when we won the WS. I loved him when he played for Cincy, I loved him when he was here. Totally ripped that guy off. So what he bet on baseball...so did everyone else...they just didn't get caught. Same with our presidents....there is a Water Gate, and a Bill Clinton story for all of them....they just didn't get caught.

I agree with what you say about sports, musicians and teachers that get ragged on. Totally acceptable there.

[Rick_Lamoreaux]

No doubt it's harsh out there, but the way I've chosen to look at it over the years is that if it's going to be a dog-eat-dog world out there I might as well play the game as well as I can. That's why when I saw stocks on a $2k investment jump from $14 a share to $70ish, split, then go back up to the $70ish range, I sold. I didn't mind paying capital gains on a $14k return. Since then the company(El Paso Corporation) stock bottomed out at $5 a share, so I decided to buy some of their stock again. Buy low, sell high...

Fortunately, with that and other things that helped out, my wife and I were able to purchase our house with more than 20% down at 6.5% interest back in '99. We were also able to afford to have my wife quit work and have our daughter. As part of our plan after a few years, she would start her daycare business, and we could start taking care of other things. Our problem was that we decided to eat out all the time, and didn't end up saving that money. Well, we don't eat out anymore if we can help it, and we actually have more money now than we did before I got laid off from work, lol! Still, the employment situation needs to change, so we can get back on track. I guess the point I want to make is that we all need to take advantage of what comes our way to the greatest extent possible. The moment we become complacent is when we lose it. We need to keep a constant vigilant eye out on our own interests.

Another thing is that people get too pessimistic when the media starts in on things. Unfortunately, we are more exposed to the media these days than we ever used to be, and it greatly affects the way we think about things. Take for instance, the Year 2k scare. Oh, how the media blew that one up! There were so many people taking advantage of the situation and of other people's interests, that it turned into a regular capitalistic and media circus. There were people saying that military aircraft would stop functioning in mid-flight. Nuclear missiles would launch unexpectedly. What a bunch of hogwash, and I don't understand why the government didn't just step in and pounce over all of that. As a former Avionics Technician, I knew better than that. Electronics don't stop working because of a date code. Missiles don't launch unless two people press two separate buttons at the same time.

I think the key to surviving in this world is to keep an ever vigilant eye out on your own interests, always have a contingency plan, always take advantage of something good when it comes your way, and make wise and educated investments in your future. When stocks started tumbling back around the turn of the century, I immediately saw how volatile 401K plans were. I'm so glad I've never invested in them, because they are such a great gamble on your hard earned money. I'd much rather spend the time and great effort to make my own investments and moves.

Until recently, FDIC-insured bank accounts have been insured to $100k. Why wouldn't you keep your money in several different accounts if you had more of it to spread around? People are too complacent. I refuse to be. It's too scary out there. I see the world economic situation like what was caused by the S&L crisis - unsound lending in real estate sparked by deregulation which introduced new risks and speculative opportunities difficult at best to administer by people who lacked the ability or experience to properly evaluate them. In our current situation, lending institutions became fiscally irresponsible by allowing borrowers to take on risky loans. Not only did banks participate in the mess, but also stupid borrowers who thought they could could hack it. There needs to be some kind of regulation put into place to prevent stuff like this happening in the future.

I say what needs to happen are limits on what construction firms can build. That's what caused us to have a foreclosure crisis back in the late eighties - speculative building. In Colorado Springs, there has been such a huge rise in luxury home building, that in turn it made it practically unaffordable for a lot of people to own a decent house without doing something like an ARM or Jumbo loan. Fortunately for our city, the building spree attracted a lot of outside buyers from California and the like, by people who had the capital. I think as a result, we really haven't been hit as much by foreclosures as other parts of the country, so the value of homes hasn't declined as much. I think we need to put a dampener on a few things if we are to see improvements in these areas.